INTERVIEW WITH SONGWRITER PETER RAFELSON

I have the immense pleasure today of welcoming a very special guest, songwriter, music producer, writer and musician Peter Rafelson, to CINEMATIC REVELATIONS for an interview. Peter is the son of late film director Bob Rafelson, whose movies included FIVE EASY PIECES, THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS [my review of the film can be found here], STAY HUNGRY, HEAD, BLACK WIDOW, MOUNTAINS OF THE MOON, and MAN TROUBLE. Today is a very special occasion for Peter and the Rafelson family, and CINEMATIC REVELATIONS, as it would have marked Bob Rafelson's ninety-first birthday, being February 21, 1933. 

Bob and Peter Rafelson

In his career, Peter has written and produced many top-selling songs for artists such as Madonna, Stevie Wonder, Anne Murray, Elton John, and The Bangles, to name several. In addition, artists such as Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Robin Thicke, and Pink have all completed their mixing at Peter’s own studios at the record label, RM Records headquarters. In this interview Peter will be discussing his father’s contributions to THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS, his own thoughts on the movie, and his career in the music industry.

Peter Rafelson

Welcome to CINEMATIC REVELATIONS Peter!

Athan: Your father was the director of THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS, a 1972 BBS Production which starred Jack Nicholson, Bruce Dern, Ellen Burstyn, and Julia Anne Robinson as the main quartet of characters. What is it that drew him to helming this picture?

Peter: What is most fascinating to understand is that Bob Rafelson and Jake Brackman wrote the script based on their own real life experiences and stories which rather accurately reflected Bob’s personal perspective on his own relationship with his brother. Jake actually grew up in Atlantic City which provided a wealth of information and sources upon which the film would draw.

You may also take note that this is a common theme in a number of Bob’s films: The desire or lack, thereof to have a whole family and brotherly relationship between two broken men who can be loving yet competitive and even deceitful, yet without malice. This need for connection is a complex and rich dynamic that presents many human issues which we may all relate to and find some truths reflected in our own lives… 

Another perfect example of this theme exists in one of Bob’s own favorite works, the much under-recognized and unappreciated epic tale of Burton and Speke – two broken men, great explorers who together forged a brotherly yet troubled love fraught with tenderness, conflict and even a touch of “bromance” as they were the first white men to ever travel to and discover the source of the great Nile River in Africa: “Mountains of the Moon” is an absolute must-see for anyone who missed it.

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Athan: What did your father most like about THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS as a movie?

Peter: This film stands out in Bob’s repertoire as his quietest drama, departing from the pugnacious toughness that defined much of his work. Bob was drawn to the story's contemplation of the hollowness of American dreams. In this film, he engages with themes of discontent, anger, and the elusiveness of the enterprise of capitalism, showbusiness, and salesmanship. The movie is characterized by its delicate and hushed tone, contrasting with Bob's typically louder and tougher style. I imagine Bob appreciated the film's study in privations: emotions withheld, pay-offs denied, and its introspective examination of two mismatched siblings caught up in the pretence of American society.

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Athan: THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS featured beautiful cinematography by Laszlo Kovacs, and spotlighted the outdoor locations in a haunting, memorable manner. Scenes such as Jack Nicholson and Bruce Dern conversing on horseback at the beach are dazzling to witness. How did your father feel about these location sequences in the final product?

Peter: In many ways, the dilapidated setting of gloomy Atlantic City boardwalks, empty beaches and failing business was the perfect poetic symbol which represented the characters' own struggles. It harkened back to a day long past when the soul of America was strong and alive. This represents another common theme in Bob’s work: the dysfunctional romanticizing of the failure of the American Dream. Many of his characters feel out of place and out of sync with their own surroundings. I imagine Bob felt that this film captured that essence and sentiment well.

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Athan: Among the works in his filmography, how did your father view THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS in comparison to his other movies?

Peter: This film was clearly made without any expectation of having great commercial success at the box office. Ironically a few of Bob’s films which were never considered to be commercial have gone on to be regarded and revered as some of the greatest American cinema in history. Bob was a strong believer in the notion that the only opinion to heed, is your own. I think this film was Bob’s chance to create without any restrictions or concerns for financial gain - this allowed him to create his purest most personal and authentic work.

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Athan: When did you yourself first see THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS, and what impressions did it make upon you as a viewer?

Peter: I was always allowed to see my father while he edited his work or watched dailies. "The King of Marvin Gardens" has left profound impressions on me at different stages of my life, with its sombre meditation on the fragility of the American Dream set against the backdrop of a decaying Atlantic City. It was a departure from the typical Hollywood narrative; the pacing was slow, almost contemplative, which allowed the melancholy to seep through. Jack Nicholson's subdued performance as David Staebler was a stark contrast to his more flamboyant roles, and Bruce Dern's portrayal of the desperately dreaming con artist brother was simultaneously sympathetic and unsettling. The film's exploration of disillusionment and the complexity of familial bonds was haunting, lingering in my mind long after the credits rolled. Clearly I would always relate the events and sentiments to my own personal family. It was not just a movie; it was a poignant reflection on ambition, reality, and the elusive nature of happiness which I have experienced throughout my own life journey and personal family life.

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Athan: Were you present during the making of THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS? If so, what reminiscences do you have of it in retrospect?

Peter: I was on set in Atlantic City with my sister and mother during the filming – this was a strange wonderland where I was able to explore and experience locations in a very unique and private fashion.  I am actually on camera in the one large crane shot of the crowd dispersing on the boardwalk following the pathetic parade sequence. I can spot my young self with my beautiful late siter, Julie running together - this makes the film rather personal and yet – I see so much of my family and the life we all had in the 70’s – it is always entertaining to watch and reflect back on the curious times – a time-capsule of America and of my own life.

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Athan: Have you kept in contact with any of the cast members from THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS?

My mother is still quite close with Ellen Burstyn – her son and I are best friends since we were born. On occasion, I still see Jack at family and holiday gatherings. I call him every year on his own birthday. I see Bruce Dern at industry events – nicest guy, you’ll ever meet.

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Athan: When did you first realize that you wanted to be a musician, and involved in the music industry?

Peter: At birth I was diagnosed as a “Rhythm Baby” I grew up in and around a home filled with world famous artists, actors, musicians, creatives and crazy people. At a very young age I was interested in music. I was given many different lessons by many different celebrities and world leaders. I was dyslexic with a gift for learning music. By age of six I was already playing guitar and piano. In 1969    The Monkees group broke up and was disbanded while my parents were at the Cannes film festival accepting the Palme d’Or award with the entire cast of Easy Rider. When a massive truck pulled up to our family home I was eight years old and all alone. The driver asked me where to take all The Monkees' musical instruments – I told him to hide them all in my basement. No one knew for six months while I taught myself to play every single instrument. By age 14, I was already playing in all the top rock clubs in Hollywood. By age 21 I had written and produced hits songs and was playing on many of the hit albums as a studio session player. By age 25 I had the biggest number one #1 hit of Madonna’s as a writer producer - “Open Your Heart” made history as the first #1 Hit song with a songwriter that had no publishing company nor contract. I kept all the rights and decided to just manage my own catalog. The next year I won two ASCAP [American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers] awards: Writer of the Year and Publisher of the Year. 

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Athan: You have worked with many eminent performers in the recording industry as mentioned at the beginning of the interview. Your collaboration with Madonna in “Open Your Heart” was a blockbuster, hitting number one, among your many musical successes. For you as a songwriter, what was your feeling at the time when the song achieved this status?

Peter: This is an interesting back-story. I spent a year waiting for moments to go into a big studio owned by someone who promised to get my demo to Cyndi Lauper. They failed miserably and I was distraught – when I finally was finishing the mix I saw a box with a tape that they were sending to a Warner Bros. Records artist’s manager. They refused to include my demo and I left with my cassette copy of the song, very sad – that night I put on gloves and a ski mask and broke into the studio where I added my own song to their tape and I never told a soul. When they were contacted, they were told they had one of their own songs chosen by the hit artist Madonna and they were all excited.  

What nobody realized was that the song she picked was the last song on their tape – however I never told them my song was the last song added. The hardest thing I ever did was to keep quiet for an entire year without telling anyone what happened – finally Madonna’s album, True Blue was released, and I had the fourth single, “Open Your Heart” which became her biggest hit. Thirty million copies later, it’s all history. To answer your question, when the song went to number #1 the entire journey and fate of my life was like a dream that has never ended – small moments, small choices, small decisions which changed the course of the universe – bigger than anyone can ever understand. Magic is real and determination is rewarded.

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Athan: Was there one instance in your musical career, be it in the music industry, film or television mediums, when everything came together faster than initially expected, and surprised even yourself when this occurred?

Peter: I never was surprised because I spent my entire life preparing for the moments of which you ask.  10,000 hours to master a single skill – this is not just a saying – and I mastered a few – so when you put in the time and work it is literally decades of dedication all to be ready for a single moment – I believe one needs to be a bit crazy to believe that the moment you were always waiting for will come – don’t be afraid of living a bit crazy and be ready when your moment comes.

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Athan: Do you have any upcoming projects of which you would like to tell readers?

Peter: After having thirty-one #1 songs to my name, perhaps my most ambitious legacy is DigiRAMP.com – a technology that will change the work and give every person the tools to manage and control their own rights and value. I always have no less than 10 projects in the works.  Here’s a short list of just a few companies and projects I am currently developing:

https://linktr.ee/peterrafelson

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Thank you so much today for your time Peter, and for the insight you have provided into Bob Rafelson, THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS, the art of music, songwriting, and musical collaborations. It has been wonderful having you on CINEMATIC REVELATIONS. You are welcome to return whenever you wish.

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Peter Rafelson links

*RMC Sites & Links to Rafelson info and companies:

http://www.peterrafelson.com - personal credits/bio

http://www.rafelson.com          - corporate

http://www.rmcstudiogroup.com - recording/mixing studios

http://www.rmrecords.com      - record label #1

http://www.4screenent.com - record label #2

http://www.digiramp.com          - rights and assets management

http://www.musicintofilm.com - music licensing

http://www.electrolizard.com    - supervision/placement

http://www.digitalpostlounge.com - post & facilities

http://www.activatehervoice.com - female empowerment

http://www.rmc360.com - VR content production 

http://www.electracast.com - podcasting & audio-first network

+Peter Rafelson official website

+Peter Rafelson IMDb page

+Bob Rafelson IMDb page

+THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS IMDb page

 

THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS (1972)

Title: THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS

Year of Release: 1972

Director: Bob Rafelson

Genre: Drama

Synopsis: A radio disc jockey becomes involved in his older brother's fantastical get rich quick and other schemes, trying to set him on the straight and narrow, and away from an aging beauty and her stepdaughter but, fate has other ideas.

Within a film history context: Stories of families, in this case of two brothers, have been featured variously through cinema history. DUEL IN THE SUN (1946) and SABRINA (1954) are notable examples from the 1940s and 1950s respectively, each pitting one brother against the other for the love of a woman, with contrasting results. With the 1970s, the decade of THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS came movies such as THE GODFATHER (1972), JUNIOR BONNER (1972), THE LAST AMERICAN HERO (1973), LOST HORIZON (1973), and THE GRAVY TRAIN (1974). Unlike the examples from 1946 and 1954, these 1970s films did not involve brothers battling over a woman. These movies had brothers in combat for a variety of reasons, such as the family business in THE GODFATHER, with THE GRAVY TRAIN showcasing brothers in a loving relationship who defend each other to the very end. JUNIOR BONNER and THE LAST AMERICAN HERO spotlighted brothers who had personal rivalries unconnected to romantic entanglements, but which were on a personal level.

In the case of LOST HORIZON, on the other hand, two brothers were at odds for one of them to not become involved with a woman, which was in definite opposition to the other movies. THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS has a similar predicament, in which one brother tries to dissuade the other from pursuing a relationship with a woman and her stepdaughter, with tragic results. Unlike the other movies mentioned, the themes of brotherly love and loyalty are handled in an exhaustive manner in THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS, taking up the majority of the movie's screen time. This has the effect of making the film one of the most intimate, honest explorations of brotherly relationships in the history of cinema.

Overview: THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS was director Bob Rafelson's third film, released after FIVE EASY PIECES (1970) and his first feature film, the irreverent HEAD (1968). The majority of his films are character-driven in nature, with some sporadic forays into suspense such as THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE (1981). THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS falls into the category of Mr Rafelson's character-driven dramas, a tightly directed, engrossing drama of two brothers, and how their bond is tested by outsiders but, events, and their own idiosyncrasies, threaten this close kinship.

Mr Rafelson has made a film which thoroughly examines the relationship of two brothers, opening them to the audience with all their flaws and fantasies intact for viewers to contemplate. This is the excellent component of the film, its most compelling aspect. There are some slow stretches in the film which dull the effect to a small degree, but Mr Rafelson makes up for these with his showcasing of the central brother-brother relationship. The female characters in THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS bring tension and complexity to the film, testing the brotherly dynamic, and add an unpredictability which showcases further nuances in the brothers. On the same note, there is the impression that if the distaff side did not appear in the film there was enough material in the brother-brother dynamic that could yet have been covered, so compelling was the relationship between the two central protagonists.

Acting: The acting in THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS is of a very high standard, with two performances in particular standing out for their realism. Bruce Dern is an actor who always gives his best on film, and this movie is no exception. An engaging, energetic performer who in this movie does not hold back in the role of Jason Stabler, the silver-tongued, roguish cad. Mr Dern infuses his role with personality and depth, and one wants to believe his pipe dreams, and hope that they turn out as he wishes. Jack Nicholson is more than a match for Mr Dern as his pensive brother, David Stabler, in THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS. Mr Nicholson is the real surprise, and revelation in the movie.

Usually cast in roles which take advantage of his penchant for off the wall antics and scene-stealing, in this film he takes on the role of the quieter, more thoughtful brother. This works so beautifully as Mr Nicholson stays largely composed in THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS, underplaying his role, that it creates a great contrast with Bruce Dern. This choice makes their relationship all the more poignant, and realistic. This is my favourite performance from Jack Nicholson, and the effect of his restraint works all the more in an emotional sense especially at the film's conclusion.

Soundtrack: THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS has relatively no score or music, the naturalistic background noise the only soundtrack the film possesses. The use of sound or music is most evident when Sally welcomes David to Atlantic City accompanied by a small orchestral ensemble, a nightclub visit, and, the faux Miss America pageant where the principals participate. The film largely stands on its own without any theme music, preferring to concentrate on the visuals which draws attention to both these, and the actors.

Mise-en-scene: The imagery in THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS is what remains with the viewer long after the movie has ended. The cinematography has captured a bleak winter in Atlantic City to maximum effect, and it reflects the chilly emotions in play for the characters in the movie, particularly Jason Stabler's tenuous relationship with aging beauty Sally. Aside from this, THE KING OF MARVIN GARDENS utilizes other outdoor locations such as the train station where David and Sally first meet, the beach where the brothers are on horseback, and the shop that David and Jason visit, and these add a freshness and veracity to the proceedings. Interior locations such as the slightly garish hotel room in which the brothers and women are staying reflects the raw emotions and scenes that take place inside here. With the red drapes and carpeting this infers that what is taking place between the characters here is akin to a theatrical performance, replete with barnstorming emotions between them for the audience to witness, and devour.

Award-worthy performances in my opinion: Jack Nicholson, Bruce Dern.

Suitability for young viewers: No. Brief female nudity, adult themes, medium-level violence.

Overall Grade: B

Link: IMDB Page

Trailer